WIP (Work In Progress)
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Zeratanus
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Quote Zeratanus Replybullet Topic: Fighter Angel challenge thing - 2014(!) updates
    Posted: 11 September 2012 at 2:20pm
I've been posting this in the challenge thread, but I'd really love some feedback, since there's such a long time before deadline, and I want to make this look pretty nice.

The animation is still very WIP, think i'll have to add a new frame for the headwings when she's on her last "going up" frame at least.

Anyway, let me know what you think. Any critiques are totally cool and welcome!



"Idle" Animation
> > > > > >
>

Block Animation
> > >

Block + Attack Animation

> > >

Full Animation:
>

Unused





edit: Full animation loop is now done, but it's got quite a bit of fixing and spicing up to go!

edit2: Aside from shadows, this is now at a "submittable" state, I think. But dont let that stop you from giving me advice to improve it!

09/06: Submitted to the gallery for the challenge - http://www.pixeljoint.com/pixelart/72979.htm# - but feel free to keep picking at it! Wont be updating the gallery version while the contest is going but I'm all for making this even better



Started working on the continued animation: (also this edit completely messed up the formatting of this post! think its all fixed now...)

WIP Poses:



2013

>>>>

Attack Only
>


EDIT: I stopped updating this post for being just TOO MANY GIFS. The comp I often post from can barely handle it! So just read along in the comments for the latest. Its got more context for why changes are made anyway!




Edited by Zeratanus - 08 January 2014 at 1:39pm
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Yuran
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Quote Yuran Replybullet Posted: 12 September 2012 at 9:15am
You have a great character, I like it. Animation a bit harsh - too strong attraction to the land, I'd like more flowing.
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Quote Zeratanus Replybullet Posted: 12 September 2012 at 10:59am
Thank you, and yeah, I've been fighting with how much vertical movement to give it from the start. Im pretty happy with how it is now, but I'll test out other timing in photoshop.

With more feedback from the challenge topic - head-wings now go up higher, shadow has more depth, and I added movement to the skirt. Also started a block and throw animation, for the fun of it.




Edited by Zeratanus - 12 September 2012 at 11:08am
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Quote Zeratanus Replybullet Posted: 12 September 2012 at 2:09pm
First go at the block animation :)

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Quote Noburo Replybullet Posted: 13 September 2012 at 6:41am
The wings on the idle animation stand out to me as being very weak, as the upward motion seems to have more power behind it. The way you can fix this is to add some rearward bend in the wings during the downward animation, as illustrated below.


In regards to the block animation, while I'm no head-wing expert, any time us regular humans exert the force needed to attack/block, you will tense up and push your entire body behind it, and in this case, I would imagine the use the head-wings would be pushing down for the additional force behind the block. That being said, it looks like by the shape of the body, it is more intended as a block from an unexpected blow. If this is the case, not as much of the previous statement would apply.

Also, just to clarify, is that a cape she is wearing, or are those more wings?
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Quote Zeratanus Replybullet Posted: 13 September 2012 at 7:01am
Thanks for the reference! I'll see what I can do to improve it :)

as for the block, I'm mostly just going for something kinda cute, but the unexpected-ness was more the plan. I originally planned on adding her looking surprised right before the block, but I haven't been able to implement it well yet. Ill keep that wing-push in mind though. Might change it later

Also, the back is another set of wings. I should probably add the 2nd one in the block animation. It would likely be visible and would make that clearer.


here's what I've got so far (Before I saw your post) - not much added except something for her to block, which is very WIP itself



edit: First pass at editing the flap



edit 2: new attack frame



She'll be magicing the spear back into existence and shooting it.

Q: So why carry the spear in the first place?
A: Because she would throw it, but I just dont have the canvas size to do that without cutting it off, which would look terrible :|

Edited by Zeratanus - 13 September 2012 at 9:20am
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Quote Zeratanus Replybullet Posted: 13 September 2012 at 1:01pm


*sigh* it's getting there! I hope I have enough time to make the attack animation before deadline.
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Quote Yuran Replybullet Posted: 13 September 2012 at 1:18pm


You have an amazing speed of creating this works. So I tried a little bit to smooth your animation angel.
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Quote Zeratanus Replybullet Posted: 13 September 2012 at 2:22pm
yeah, when I do work on something, I tend to really work on it!

I'm not sure which version I prefer. I like the weight of my original, but yours looks more floaty and probably more angelic... I'll definitely think about it. Thanks :)


And ugh, this whole attack animation thing is getting to me. Block stage is finished, but the attack stage is really causing me problems.

The attack itself is totally WIP, just felt like getting a general idea of how many more frames I need. And I think im done working on it for today... try to hit it fresh tomorrow!

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Quote DawnBringer Replybullet Posted: 13 September 2012 at 4:43pm
I like the colors and the character, but that halo is a banded, ugly mess!
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Quote Yuran Replybullet Posted: 14 September 2012 at 8:47am
Give advice before you completed the attack animation. Angel in the attack feet are in a position as if she takes a hit, but should be the opposite.
When she does blow then all her body should be pointing upwards to the forward of the attacking arm as if she jumped through the gulf

Edited by Yuran - 14 September 2012 at 9:14am
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Quote Zeratanus Replybullet Posted: 14 September 2012 at 11:08pm
@Dawnbringer - is the new one in this animation better? (huzzah for having the halo on its own layer, and easily editable for all frames!)

@Yuran - yes, the attack animation was looking very poor. So I've completely changed my mind on what I'm doing!

Now she falls to the ground, because I find it cute, and because she's not flapping to keep her up anymore. Now the attack will take place on the ground instead of trying to find some way to make it take place in a fall, or without the bunch of extra frames to reposition her.



(Attack animation itself is still very WIP. hoping to get on this hardcore tomorrow and finish it up before Sunday...)

edit: just noticed she's clearly not landing as far down as the shadows are. ill be editing the shadows position later I suppose!

edit2: Added a frame into the floating animation (1 more than before, 1 less than Yuran's edit), and changed the halo




Edited by Zeratanus - 14 September 2012 at 11:31pm
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Quote eclep Replybullet Posted: 15 September 2012 at 7:44am
Please finish it in time, I will totally vote for for this!

I made a little edit on the floating animation :



I just changed the height of the angel on each frame (that is why the halo looks a little weird), because I think it looked like she was going up before her wing even flapped down.
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Quote Zeratanus Replybullet Posted: 15 September 2012 at 2:03pm
Good point, Eclep! I've adjusted my animation file, but wont bother to upload it yet again lol. Thanks!

Okay, getting the attack animation in place... realized I missed the back wings so Ill have to tack those back on! The fly up is still obviously not done.



Not entirely happy with the attack animation, but I think.. the end is in sight... I'm honestly ready for this to be done lol.
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Quote AirStyle Replybullet Posted: 15 September 2012 at 2:11pm
The attack seems lack-luster. Maybe some recoil to the arm spear shot would look better.

BTW, why aren't you using the over-sized spear for attacking :P ?
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Quote jalonso Replybullet Posted: 15 September 2012 at 2:31pm
I think taking just one (any) concentrating on that one and entering the challenge is a smarter and efficient way to meet a goal.
However, I think you should carry on the thread after the week ends and really work on these. They are so lovely and you'll learn a lot from everyone and everyone will learn a lot from you in the process.
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Quote Zeratanus Replybullet Posted: 15 September 2012 at 3:06pm
@AirStyle: Recoil eh? That would add some needed "Umf" to it! I think I'll have time to keep messing with it, so I'll give it a try! As for the spear, it was longer before, but it took so many frames for it to get out it made the attack even more dull than it is now.

@Jalonso: I was considering dropping the attack part entirely, but it just felt lopsided, seeing her get knocked down over and over again!

I'm sure it'll be able to be a lot better than I'll be able to get it by tomorrow though, so I've got no problem continuing this until I totally run out of steam! In the meantime though I'm going to see if I cant at least finish what I've started.

And thanks for the kind words!

Here's the first -almost- looped animation. It's still missing some frames of her returning to the original pose and reforming the spear, and the attack hasn't been edited yet, but it's nice to at least see it nearing a full loop.



edit: okay. Now it is "done", having all its animation in place (aside from shadows). Now all that's left is shadows, and fixing up the lackluster bits!




Edited by Zeratanus - 15 September 2012 at 3:51pm
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Quote Buddy90 Replybullet Posted: 15 September 2012 at 5:15pm
Try making the spear animation fast, it doesn't really look like she's throwing it at this speed. And this sprite is absolutely adorable.
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Quote Zeratanus Replybullet Posted: 15 September 2012 at 10:19pm
Okay everyone, how's this? Sped it up, added recoil, added all sorts of other frames, including an extra one for the "getting up" part. As it is now (aside from lack of shadows still) I could feel decent about submitting it.

But totally keep on with the critiques! Still have another day and I hope I'll have the energy to keep working on it afterwards too!



edit: okay, submitting this thing (with shadows!) to the gallery now for the Challenge. But feel free to keep picking at it! - http://www.pixeljoint.com/pixelart/72979.htm#


Edited by Zeratanus - 16 September 2012 at 9:32am
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Quote jalonso Replybullet Posted: 17 September 2012 at 7:01am
Progress is real good and you got a vote from me for this week's challenge.

I would nitpick the halo in all versions in that it currently feels a bit thick and heavy. Not that its awful but something lighter, smaller, thinner, floatier would add to the sprite's heavenly nature...me thinks.
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Quote Zeratanus Replybullet Posted: 19 September 2012 at 10:51am
Thanks Jal

Seems I have a lot to consider with the Halo. On that note, I'm going to paste DawnBringer's comment onto here to make sure I dont forget it:

Since you posted the image I'll continue the halo issue here instead of the forum.

It's better but still not good. There's still some banding and it's not quite circular. And It's often an important aspect of a sprite to make it work with different backgrounds, meaning that you will have to be very restrictive and selective with outer AA (something I've been practicing & exploring myself recently). Typically, any sprite that works well with all backgrounds often become a better looking sprite in general.

Here's an edit to demonstrate this: (your original in the left column)

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Quote Cheetah Replybullet Posted: 19 September 2012 at 11:14am
That looks like great advice from DawnBringer. I would also comment that the throw animation is the weakest piece. It definitely needs to be faster, maybe not motion blurred but at least shorter time for the frames.
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Quote Zeratanus Replybullet Posted: 01 October 2012 at 8:25am
Playing with what exactly to do with this now. Thinking of instead of replacing the existing attack animation, I'll add in a second attack, after she realizes the first one wasn't all that great~

Some poses I've been playing with:

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Quote Buddy90 Replybullet Posted: 01 October 2012 at 7:39pm
Now you just to give her a name and backstory :)

This character is super adorable, you should take it beyond the realm of a simple challenge entry.
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Quote Zeratanus Replybullet Posted: 15 January 2013 at 8:33am
AAAAND I'm back to it! (and thanks Buddy90! :) )

No drastic changes yet, and I'm scaling back my original plans, unless I really get into this again. New halo, thanks to DawnBringer, and a few extra frames added in before the attack, which are still WIP (needs a few more between frames, and the frames that are there aren't fully done (wings need to move and such). Instead of majorly changing the attack, I'm thinking of just adding these new frames and then edit her hair during the attack to be flowing around, instead of static.

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Quote coloringsquared Replybullet Posted: 15 January 2013 at 9:19am
This awesome. My only comment would be preferential, I would rather see the spear taken off of the back instead of disappearing.

Your block animation is amazing. I think she starts getting pushed back too early from the blast. She should get hit and forced back, it looks like she moves before she is hit. However, the way she blocks is super cute and gives her personality.

Edited by coloringsquared - 15 January 2013 at 9:19am
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Quote Zeratanus Replybullet Posted: 15 January 2013 at 9:47am
Thanks! And yeah, the whole spear thing could of probably been done in a much more interesting way, but at this point that would be a near total overhaul of the animation x)

I did a quick test based on what you said, and I think I've figured it out. She wasn't actually moving backwards before the blast hit, but she was drawing the shield back towards her, which makes it look like she is. I just nudged that frame a few pixels to the right and I think it gets rid of that without causing any problems with the rest of it

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Quote Zeratanus Replybullet Posted: 16 January 2013 at 8:11am
Updated with some more frames for the hand clench. I don't know why, but I just love pixeling little hands. Its just really satisfying for some reason.

edit: Few but, IMO, important frame updates. Her shield no longer bounces back up with her entirely during her bump, and as she stands up she has to correct her posture as she goes a bit (1 pixel) too far. Also edited the throw animation to match what I'll be editing later.

>

Edited by Zeratanus - 16 January 2013 at 1:10pm
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Quote Zeratanus Replybullet Posted: 21 January 2013 at 8:23am
Haven't worked on it a ton more, but I got some of the other new poses from a few posts back worked into it. Which of course means I'll have to add in all sorts of new frames to make it move smoothly, but for now it's a jumpy mess~

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Quote Zeratanus Replybullet Posted: 22 January 2013 at 8:24am
Stripped the animation down to just the attack frames so I can focus on them. Added more transition frames to the first part of the attack. still lack them on the second part (end/recoil). Other parts still look odd to me which I'll work on, like the movement of the shield as she prepares to attack.



Seriously though, if anyone wants to leave any feedback feel free ;P. I've got no problem finishing this on my own, but I know I'm not seeing everything that could be improved! :P

edit: glad I stripped it down. Now i see that she weirdly blips to the left when I didn't mean for her to. Wee more editing!

Edited by Zeratanus - 22 January 2013 at 8:27am
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Quote shampoop Replybullet Posted: 22 January 2013 at 9:21am
First off, the work you are putting into this is paying off because it looks great.  I enlarged it and watched your latest update for a while thinking of what to say and my only crit is the halo is way too distracting.  I would maybe limit how far off the head it travels or add some motion blur.  Although the motion blur might be hard to add at this point because it isn't used anywhere else and might just look weird.

Any plans of making a walk cycle or anything?
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Quote Zeratanus Replybullet Posted: 22 January 2013 at 1:03pm
Thanks Shampoop! :D

I'll definitely keep the halo thing in mind. I've toned it down a bit, but I think it'll be less distracting when I've finished the other effects I'm planning on putting in, like her hair whipping forward and such (assuming that actually ends up looking good lol). I'll also probably draw a few new frames for it too, as having it stationary while her body's turning so far is weird looking.

As for any animations beyond this one, I guess it depends on how much steam I have left after this is over lol. I've been focusing on this little loop for so long, I really want to make it as good as I can get it before I start something else with this character.


And for my update: More frames! Smoother frames! (Fast frames! slooow frames! Even frames from around the world!) *has seen the "Lots and Lots of Trains/Planes commercial way too many times*.

Hair still isn't doing any whipping, and the little wing blip i added during the fist clench looks WAY too spazzy right now, but I'm not entirely sure what I want to do with it right now. Just that having it sit still looks boring. Edit: oh yeah, and now she gets pushed back by the attack, and not just because I'm doofus who didn't realize it!

old -> new
->

Edited by Zeratanus - 22 January 2013 at 1:04pm
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Quote Zeratanus Replybullet Posted: 17 September 2013 at 9:10am
Raaaaah RISE FROM THE GRAVE, TOPIC OF MY CREATION!

Yup, still haven't forgotten about this. Because i WILL finish this EVENTUALLY

Added hair and wing motion to the attack, still no attack itself. BUT ITS SOMETHING @_@

Old -> New
->
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Quote jalonso Replybullet Posted: 17 September 2013 at 9:36am
You are doing such a great job on this!
I still find the halo too 'heavy' and has from the start. I find it distracting:/
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Quote Zeratanus Replybullet Posted: 18 September 2013 at 8:41am
Thanks Jal :D

And do you mean the halo looks heavy or moves in too heavy a fashion? Either way, I stripped out its darker colors and I think I like it more now. (not happy with the brownish in it though. might strip that out too)

Added in the spear to the attack. Only mildly different from the old version (takes longer to appear, shoots faster, kicks little bits of energy out of the ball). But between the new animation for the girl and this I think it has a lot more impact than the original.

As usual, any critiques are more than welcome :)



Edited by Zeratanus - 18 September 2013 at 8:42am
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Quote jalonso Replybullet Posted: 18 September 2013 at 9:45am
I mean heavy in that its too thick a ring and if you visually weigh it against the shield they seem equal, ya noes. Seems to me a halo should read as light and airy.
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Quote Zeratanus Replybullet Posted: 18 September 2013 at 11:22am
Hm, yeah I get what you mean. Okay, I shrunkified the halo a lot, so it's smaller and hopefully less thick looking. placement in the animations hasn't changed at all though so its a tad jumpier. did actually animate it having a tilt as it reaches its furthest point though.

Also added 1 new frame right before the spear fires to give it less of an immediate kick back which bugged me. Also noticed that when the hand was fully extended her hair blipped behind her wing, so that's fixed now too. Yay for derping on the details~

old vs new
->

Edited by Zeratanus - 18 September 2013 at 11:26am
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Quote shampoop Replybullet Posted: 18 September 2013 at 11:44am
The next attack should be using the halo as a weapon 


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Quote jalonso Replybullet Posted: 18 September 2013 at 12:46pm
Halo as weapon is a great idea.

I feel badly now for nitpicking but while I like the halo a bit smaller I meant the original size but 'thinner'. Kinda like the gold edge of the shield but maybe 1px thicker than that.
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Quote Zeratanus Replybullet Posted: 19 September 2013 at 9:06am
No worries Jal, nitpicking is what this is all about at this point! But I'm afraid I'm not totally sure what you mean then, could you clarify, or show me an example?

And attacking with the halo would be interesting, but it'd either need an entirely new set of animations or a complete revamping of the second half of the attack (Probably could maker her throw it with the first half of the animation intact), but at this point I think I want to get this improved loop done, then I'll see about spending more time on going further with it!

(or, hell, maybe another loop altogether. That'd probably be way less of a hassle...)
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Quote jalonso Replybullet Posted: 19 September 2013 at 9:29am


I purposely went thin and 'wrong' as not to sway you, k. Just showing thinner and lighter.

ps: Halo weapon can be boomerrang-ish

Edited by jalonso - 19 September 2013 at 9:30am
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Quote serrival Replybullet Posted: 20 September 2013 at 8:52pm
I'd like to say, I love this work and you've done a great job with your animation!
There is one thing which bothers me as I watch your beautiful angel - the transition between the 4th and 5th frames of her floating is slightly jarring compared to the smoothness of the rest of the animation. Perhaps it is because her wings are too pulled down or because the wing distance between frames 4 and 5 are too great? Either way, I hope you can find some time to continue perfecting your marvelous work!
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Quote Zeratanus Replybullet Posted: 23 September 2013 at 2:12pm
Thanks Jal! Totally get it now!

And you're too kind, Serrival! But you're -RIGHT- it's totally jarring!

NEW 10 frame version of the float loop! Also took some time to redo the hair more like Jal's edit, cuz it was way too busy (also might redo the wings and such too, later). No halo for the moment.



-edit- seeing a few things bugging me with the new hair too. Heh. Whelp, next update...-

Edited by Zeratanus - 23 September 2013 at 2:26pm
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Quote serrival Replybullet Posted: 23 September 2013 at 5:43pm
Beautiful! Looking forward to her next update!
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Quote Zeratanus Replybullet Posted: 24 September 2013 at 7:32am
~Oh it's the sprite that doesnt eeeeend, it just goes on and on my friiieeeend!~

Edits on:
Hair now swishes forward. WEE!
Shield now looks less curved with new shading, slightly reworked cross thing
Feet have more frames of movement
Subtle (hopefully?) bounce to the chest, since every other damned thing is moving
Redid the shading on the bottom part of her outfit to be less busy, changed its animation slightly
New halo. Not totally happy with it, might try it with the darker colors of Jal's edit

Old -> New

->

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Quote Zeratanus Replybullet Posted: 25 September 2013 at 8:36am
Got the block animation redone. Major changes from the last post is a redone spear head and halo, which I like a bit more now. Dozens of other minor edits, but nothing worth noting individually.

Next step is the work in the new attack animation (and redo the hair and shield on all those frames too~)

If you see any problems with the frames so far let me know!



Edited by Zeratanus - 25 September 2013 at 8:36am
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Quote AlcopopStar Replybullet Posted: 25 September 2013 at 8:58am
I just wanted to pipe in and say I love this. great progress.
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Quote 2blackbar Replybullet Posted: 25 September 2013 at 5:11pm
I would bend the wings a bit more when they move down, theyre too straight in the mid-way, its too fast, should be straight on the bottom.
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Got inspired to make my own sprite in similar theme and test wings myself so maybe that would help to show what i mean but previous pic with bird was also very good help.



Edited by 2blackbar - 26 September 2013 at 8:02am
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Zeratanus
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Quote Zeratanus Replybullet Posted: 26 September 2013 at 8:34am
Geezum this animation has too many frames! So much to fix! And noticed in the new attack animation that when she throws her arm forward her back foot blips! How could something so wonky still be in this animation!? lol oh boy...

Wont post the current progress yet, want to at least get the attack redone and then have the jump back into the air as the last bit.


@2blackbar - I'm a bit confused: your explanation sounds like you think the flap downward should bend more, but your animation only bends as the wings move up.

Either way, looking at it it does seem like the upward movement of the wings should be pulled closer to the body, so I tried that out:

old -> New

->
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2blackbar
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Quote 2blackbar Replybullet Posted: 26 September 2013 at 1:28pm
Wings down movement should lift character up kinda like they really do in real life.Now your character lifts up when wings lift up which is opposite to real life.
In my example wings are bent a bit like this even if it isnt that visible and they go down under angle like this /  not like this -- ,    its better visible on right wing than on bigger left one , that frame in red circle is important  so wings are bent up a little bit, in your animation they look too straight for too long during middle of the down movement for my taste and theyre all the time bent upwards tiny bit  in area near the head ,  i would bend them down near the head when they go down , anyway you did fantastic work and thanks to you i was inspired to make my own animation :) Maybe its best to split shield, head and body into layers and move them a bit differently to get most motion but its up to you.I know its very nitpicky but thats what im looking for when im animating also now you fixed them and bent them down when moving up but i think you should bend them closer to head or at least exactly in the middle... anyway there are different types of wings but i think the ones that are longer from the middle to sides look best, like here http://www2.ups.edu/biology/museum/BLOYwingUWBM36365.jpg.
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