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Quiara
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Quote Quiara Replybullet Topic: New Ranks for PJv4.0
    Posted: 15 October 2020 at 3:18pm
As you all know, PixelJoint has a rank system, where over time members "level up" and go through a series of rank icons. As you also all know, the ranks we currently have are... not great. A couple people have brought up these complaints both on the PJ forum and on the Discord, including the dearly departed jal:
Originally posted by jalonso

PJ did not start out as a true art site so that's just something that's never been touched since Ens made the icons for them.

To sum up the complaints, PJ is a creative website but almost all of the current ranks are about crime, fighting, or crimefighting; your only option for something outside of that very narrow range of subjects is the working stiff progression, which is pretty boring. There are no art-themed ranks, no gaming-themed ranks, no computer-themed ranks, etc - but we do have four different varieties of "guy with gun."

According to sedge, PJ 4.0 can have a new set of ranks; of particular interest is that he intends "to have it 'unlock' different ranks so users can choose any that they unlock as they rank up."

With this in mind, some questions worth posing to the entire PJ community:

Should we keep any of the current ranks? I'm of the mind that most of the current rank themes aren't actually liked so much as they are tolerated. But I could be wrong here.

Should we keep to the style of the current ranks? The current icons by thUg are very much period pieces, using techniques that were cutting edge back in the '00s that have dated a little over the past decade. I personally like the style, but I could see a case for having a more modern PA aesthetic.

What are you looking for in terms of choices for new ranks? Something artsier? More professional? A little less macho? Something else entirely? Etc.
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Nightmare3711
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Quote Nightmare3711 Replybullet Posted: 15 October 2020 at 4:07pm
I honestly don't mind any of the current ranks, I just chose the "Working Stiff" one because it was most relavent to my interests (I want to start a company). The rest aren't terrible to me, but I wouldn't be upset if a couple like either Army or Navy (both of which are very similar) or even Psychos going. But I would be upset if we just went and replaced all of them. I personally am in favor of addition to the current ranks rather than replacement.

As for keeping the artstyle, I think that if we want to stray away from it, we should be allowed to, so long as it looks good. I personally tried to replicate the style with my BSA rankings as a challenge for myself. If we feel the need to deviate, then we should be allowed to deviate.

And holy sh*t do I have a lot of rank ideas. A lot of which have come from other people, but about half or so I would say are mine:

Art Supplies
Board Games
COmputing Power
Creepypastas
Cryptids
Eldritch Horrors
Fairytales
Feudal
Flowers
Food Chain
Gems
Girl Scouts
Idioms
Instruments
Kaiju
Magic Users
Metals
Musical Notes
Superheroes
Nursery Rhymes
Religion
Reptiles
Sea Creatures
Urban Legends
Zombies

Note that a lot of these don't have an objectively correct way of ranking them. Flowers, for example, would be incredibly difficult to order because there are so many flowers and everyone would have a different way they would organise them. Sure, there could be a general consensus, but who's to say that won't change in 5 to 10 years?

But do they all have to ordered in an objectively correct way? No, I don't think they do. With Kaiju and Cryptids, there are more generally iconic ones that people will recognize and probably favor more towards the top. Godzilla, for example, is an extremely iconic and very powerful Kaiju, and would likely be placed near rank 11, if not rank 11.

But I personally want to see something less generally masculine and more geeky. Maybe even a feminine one or two thrown in there for more variety. Things like Computing Power or Gems or Flowers. Or even something neutral, like the metals and the instruments. I just want to see more variety to choose from for more types of people. Not that there's anything wrong with masculinity itself, it's just that pretty much the only option is something generally masculine.
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Quote zombieMode Replybullet Posted: 15 October 2020 at 4:25pm
None of the current ranks really interest me aside from some of the psycho and mafia ranks. I picked karate since I didn't want anything too violent and working stiff bored me.
If we were to replace any of the ranks, I'd go for the army and navy ones and maybe karate since it's all recolors.
Like eishiya said in an earlier thread I think a plain rank progression that's just numbers and levels would be nice for people who want to keep it professional.
I have a few ideas for ranks that I think are interesting, mainly a food chain rank progression and an rpg monster progression. I like animals and I figure a lot of us here like games, so those might be a nice change of pace. Some ideas with simple progressions that I and some others have come up with were chess pieces(and to fill up the rest of the ranks we could have a board, checker piece, and a grandmaster) and cards. For something that fits with the current style of icons, boxing weight classes might work well. And if we were to add more ranks, like a rank 12, we could have a nerd rank!
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thalassophobic
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Quote thalassophobic Replybullet Posted: 15 October 2020 at 7:50pm
Personally, I like... none of the current ranks. When I first joined they definitely struck me as overly "macho" and kind of edgy. And the only non-violent one is.. what, capitalism? I'm thinking this might be linked to the "boys' club" energy that a lot of people said that PJ used to have. From my experience, though, PJ has since outgrown that and it's time the ranking systems reflect that. I understand that some people like some of the current ranking systems, so I don't think we should be too quick to toss 'em out. But, personally, I advocate for replacing them completely.

As for the style, gorgeous as they are, they're definitely kind of dated. I'm of the opinion that whether we add new rankings or replace them completely, we should be able to stray from this established style. In fact, I think that rankings in various distinct styles of pixel art would be more true to how diverse pixel art has become. I advocate for "any style goes" as long as it looks good.

AND NOW FOR SUGGESTIONS! Definitely we need rankings that are more indicative of our community as pixel artists. "Artsy" ranks would be good considering that we're all artists. Gaming-related ranks (especially retro gaming) would also be good since a lot of people get into pixel art from games. Those two are some pretty safe ranking systems that I don't think anyone would object to adding.

As for weirder, less orthodox suggestions. I definitely want some Cthulhu Mythos garbage because I'm that kind of person. I'm thinking some "science-y" ranks would be great for my fellow nerd garbage. Some ideas:
  • Mohs Hardness Scale (Geology)
  • Radioactive Elements (Chemistry)
  • Evolutionary Progression, from single cells to humans or even SUPER COOL POST-HUMANS (Biology)
  • Astronomy, like meteors to stars to supernovae to black holes (Physics)
  • Sub-atomic particles, not sure how you'd rank them but their names are still cute as hell (more Physics)
  • Electromagnetic Waves, from gamma rays to visible light to radio waves (I don't have a thing for Physics, what do you mean)
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Nightmare3711
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Quote Nightmare3711 Replybullet Posted: 15 October 2020 at 10:21pm
I'd also like to add that I think this would make for a great challenge. I was thinking we could have it take place over a whole month, similar to Pixelween. Like 3 each week for the first 3 weeks, and 2 for the last week, or 2 for the first week and 3 for the following three weeks. But only those with a complete set can be viable to win, and the top three or so will be added.

But on the point that thalassophobic made, I don't think we should outright remove all of the current ones in one fell swoop. Sure, there are things to dislike about all of them, but there are also things to like about them. I really like the style of the Psychos, even if they are a bit edgy, as Thal said. I also like the Crime Syndicate. The art is very clever and they are all very visually distinct. Even Killer has some good ones in there, like Hitman. I would be upset to see them removed all at once.

But those are some great suggestions for ranks, Thal! Some of them would be easy to rank, and a few could be visually interesting and creative.

Edit: The challenge should have similar restrictions to the current icons, like a size of 48 x 48 for each individual icon.
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Hapiel
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Quote Hapiel Replybullet Posted: 15 October 2020 at 11:39pm
Just to be clear, we don't need to wait for PJv4 to get new ranking icons, they can be implemented as soon as they're done!
Either as extra or as replacement.
If there are going to be many extra, I think we might also need a suggestion on how to reorganise this page.
But that is a detail that can be worked out later!
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Pig_catapult
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Quote Pig_catapult Replybullet Posted: 16 October 2020 at 12:06am
Honestly I don't like any of the rankings, and I wouldn't be sad to see any of them go.

My thoughts about the current rankings:

The Psycho line has the art that most appeals to me, but I get enough "what's wrong with you that makes you write/read/enjoy horror?" from people irl to want anywhere near a ranking list that conflates my genre appreciation with labels like "serial killer" or "necrophiliac."

Same "why would I want to associate myself with that?" problem for the Killer and Crime Syndicate ones, except none of the art for them personally appeals  to me. Do we really need three each of "I kill people" and "I might kill people if it's legitimized by the state"? Unless we get a lot more options, I'd say we should cut or rename at least one each. Keeping the Killer art and just renaming the ranks to the kinds of gun depicted might broaden its appeal; I know Husband's a nerd for that kind of thing but he thinks it's kind of weird that the ranks on an art site are about killing people or being a gangster instead of being art-themed. (Weapons-drawing is absolutely a pixel art genre unto itself.)

There's nothing intrinsically wrong with the cop one, but it's certainly a lot more of a charged topic these days than when first implemented, and that's all I'm going to say on the matter.

Army and Navy are redundant, as others have said before. But if we're gonna talk about redundant graphics, the Karate one takes the cake. It's a single sprite, palette swapped all the way down. The Working Stiff one is only marginally better.

My thoughts about potential new rankings:

I'd like a more Spooky-Fun-flavored horror ranking. Flowers, gems, and cute things would also get my attention. So would something quirky, like increasingly elaborate teapots, or accurately science-themed like space or animals

Being able to opt out of ranks entirely and just have a number would also be nice.

Rankings Husband was expecting when I explained that Pixel Joint has a ranking system:
  • Art Periods
  • Art Styles
  • Famous Paintings
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thalassophobic
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Quote thalassophobic Replybullet Posted: 16 October 2020 at 1:40am
Aw, man, I have to agree with what Pig said about the Psychos line. Visually the most impressive and interesting, in my opinion, with such iconic horror characters. It's a shame they're named in such an... unappealing way, I suppose. Just renaming them would do so much for them.

If we keep any, I sincerely hope we keep either the Psychos line, the Mafia line, or both. They're just creative and they look cool, despite the kind of meh subject matter.

Also agreeing with Nightmare, a contest for the new rankings would be super cool. I'm not sure about necessarily linking it to the weeklies though. It's way too much to do in a week (submitting incrementally over several weeks might be better), and the quality would benefit from a longer time period.

What's y'all's opinion on a contest for the rankings that's not linked with the weeklies? Does PJ have any functionality that could be useful for that, or will it have to be held off-site?
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Hapiel
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Quote Hapiel Replybullet Posted: 16 October 2020 at 5:48am
For what it's worth, after reading all of your arguments I am totally in favor of abolishing all existing rankings!

@thalassophobic:
There is no functionality for non weekly contests, but many contests have been held on the forums in various formats. For example recently the very informal PJ icon competition in the chatterbox, or a few years ago the Teamwork competition.

Setting up a poll, asking judges or starting a public discussion are all among the possibilities which I can help organise, if a competition format is desired.
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Quote Eggy Replybullet Posted: 16 October 2020 at 9:52am
In a way, while I would understand getting rid of the existing ranks, I'm also feeling like they could be left in. I remember when I was picking my theme, I didn't like any so I just went with one I liked the most out of all of them - Law and Order - and it happens to have very much grown on me. I really liked the idea of a police officer rank. I'd be a bit sad to see this one (or any of the ranks) go unless so many people genuinely don't like them, lol.
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Nightmare3711
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Quote Nightmare3711 Replybullet Posted: 16 October 2020 at 5:12pm
I am personallay against outright removing all of them, as I have said before. But I can also see a reason to remove most of them. And I can also see a reason to only have a few to choose from, because the paradox of choice is a real thing; Too many options and people will have a hard time choosing one. But if you ask me, it's not even a permanent thing. Someone can change it at any time that they want, and for completely free. And personally, I think if we can get more, we should just get more. There are people who like the curent ranks (such as myself) and I wouldn't want to see them go so easily.

And if they're still unpopular, we can phase them out.

But if we're going to just replace a bunch of them, can we at least keep one of them? I'm personally in favor of keeping Crime Syndicate, as that one is my favorite. They are all so visually interesting, distinct, and creative, and I would be very upset to see this one go.

Edit: I'm going to change my ranking to Crime Syndicate to drive it home
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Quiara
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Quote Quiara Replybullet Posted: 16 October 2020 at 8:29pm
It's sort of interesting to see that people are suggesting ranks with obvious linear progressions as you rank up, while saying that their favorite choices of the existing rank progressions (Mafia and Psycho) are the two with the least coherent progression from rank to rank.

I love how, well, iconic the Mafia rank icons are: a horse head and a Molotov cocktail have personality that, say, a generic police badge doesn't. That IMO is what you should be aiming for - themes that give you a wide range of iconic images to choose from.

So for instance, if you did a SPACE theme, the first rank might be a lowly Space Invader alien (apropos on multiple levels as probably the first video game "character"), but then as you ranked up you might become a UFO, a Martian, the Voyager probe, a droid (perhaps one of the ones in this iconic submission?), an astronaut, etc maybe culminating in something massive like a Black Hole? (Can't get much more final than that.)
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Quote Pig_catapult Replybullet Posted: 16 October 2020 at 8:50pm
If we do keep one murdery ranking untouched (i.e. neither removed nor given different titles), I agree that the Crime Syndicate is the most visually interesting option.

Edit to add because I didn't see Quiara's post:

I agree that we seem to be stressing about "how do we fit these things into a logical hierarchy?" more than really seems necessary, especially if there's plans to later on be able to pick an icon from any you've already unlocked...

And just as I was typing the word "unlocked" there, I realized that might be an easy way to order the ones that don't have much in the way of a clear order. Just make 11 icons of a consistent style and quality, run a poll that gives everyone three votes for their favourites, and put them in order of popularity.
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Quote Harmonica! Replybullet Posted: 17 October 2020 at 12:00pm
Is there any way to tell which ranks are the most used?

I've been trying to think up some ideas that could please a wide range of people and possibly be more PJ oriented.

One idea I had was that the karate rank could be reworked into a palette themed rank where the karate guy would be used to showcase various historical and popular palettes. Maybe it would be called "Palette Master"?  Or maybe the Nerd's face could be used?

Some other ideas:
-Bones/Skeleton (dog bone, fish bone, wishbone, funny bone, numbskull, humerus, bone head, big boned, fully articulated, too spooky)
-jalonso themed insect colony
-coffee,tea, and/or hot drinks
-obsolete/useless technology

The cryptid rank idea that's been mentioned a few times is really great. I think it would be a real crowd pleaser!
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thalassophobic
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Quote thalassophobic Replybullet Posted: 17 October 2020 at 6:40pm
Originally posted by Harmonica!

Is there any way to tell which ranks are the most used?

A poll would be a good idea to gauge their popularity among currently active members!
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Pig_catapult
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Quote Pig_catapult Replybullet Posted: 17 October 2020 at 8:11pm
Originally posted by Harmonica!

-Bones/Skeleton (dog bone, fish bone, wishbone, funny bone, numbskull, humerus, bone head, big boned, fully articulated, too spooky)

DO WANT
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Hapiel
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Quote Hapiel Replybullet Posted: 18 October 2020 at 2:47am
Originally posted by thalassophobic

A poll would be a good idea to gauge their popularity among currently active members!


If we want, I could easily create a poll in the forums (that's a hidden feature) and make a news post about it
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SeDiceBisonte
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Quote SeDiceBisonte Replybullet Posted: 18 October 2020 at 3:17am
Funny that I just saw this thread. Since joining I'd been thinking that a broader range of non-violent ranks would be interesting. I went with navy just because I liked the colours in the first few ranks but the red has gone now I've leveled up.

I don't really mind if the ranks are added to or completely replaced. The latter might be better just to stop people being overwhelmed with choice.

I personally would like to see a sci-fi theme in there, although I don't know what the stance is regarding copyright. Certainly the serial killers seem to have been fine for years, so maybe it'd be okay. You could have a series of iconic fictional spaceships such as the Discovery (2001) and the Enterprise (Star Trek). I admit I do struggle to think of many more that are scientific vessels as opposed to military ones, or at least ones that are so iconic. I wouldn't really complain about a load of warships either because Battlestar Galactica and the Sulaco (Aliens) do look cool but, as I said earlier, the themes are already largely based on violence.

Another thought is to have a series of portraits like the killers, but for famous artists. You could even organize them into some sort of hierarchy based on chronology (with either a newer artist as the lowest rank or as the highest one). I'm thinking really recognizable people like Leonardo da Vinci, Andy Warhol, Vincent van Gogh, Frida Kahlo, Pablo Picasso, Salvador Dali etc. Might need a few more Renaissance ones to fill the gap in time, or maybe have them all be 20th Century onwards... That list could do with more female artists too. I'd say a 50/50 split would be good but there are eleven ranks.

Edit: zombieMode and Harmonica! both mentioned the PJ Nerd. Maybe the default rank could be Nerd themed? Have the first rank be a baby version, then a toddler etc... Not sure how distinct he'd look in each phase, but I feel like the default rank should be Pixel Joint-branded in some way.

I also just thought that there could be ranks based on hardware, the graphical restrictions of which are commonly used in pixel art. For example, the lowest level could be Gameboy and it could go up to Commodore 64 via NES, ZX Spectrum etc.
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Hapiel
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Quote Hapiel Replybullet Posted: 06 November 2020 at 4:55am
So right now we've started to work on the most popular theme suggestions:

nightmare3711: astronomy / planets
Jinn: cthulhu
Alphonse6: Rpg monsters
Drea: sci-fi DONE
Hapiel: evolution
Harmonica! : playing cards
Dracula9AntiChapel: feudal
Zombiemode: chess
Gawrone: Cryptids
pixel art: StevenM

unclaimed: gaming related


Who would like to claim one of these sets and start working on a series of 11 48x48 icons? The person who picks the set will lay the foundation for the work, is encouraged to discuss with the community what the 11 ranks should be and collaboration is very welcome too.
If no wips are shown within a week it might be passed on to another person.
Style: Anything goes, but transparent background and a black #000000 single px outline are required for all icons.

I'll try to keep this list up to date both here and in the PJ discord server.

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Quote wakimojo Replybullet Posted: 21 November 2020 at 7:37pm
i kinda want to make one based on botany (seed to adult plant), that's my vibe, but don't wait up, cya for PJv5.0
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Quote bypatryk Replybullet Posted: 22 November 2020 at 4:34am
I like the idea of portraying evolution of pixel-art styles (based on display restrictions), similarly to what Evoland did with evolution of games.

So maybe a walkthrough iconic color palettes? It could start with 1-bit (b&w), 2-bit (gameboy green-ish color palette), 3-bit (SECAM), NES, etc.

I'm not sure though what the final rank could be made of (a photorealistic 3D render with full spectrum of colors? within the 48x48 limits)
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Quote MalevolentMask Replybullet Posted: 29 November 2020 at 9:06am
Just wanted to say i'm so glad that this was brought up. I like some of the current icons (mainly the psycho and mafia ranks) but it'd be cool to see some variety.

I agree with Wakimojo about a plant/botany one. If it's not taken yet i'd be down with tackling it! But either way a plant one would have my vote lol
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Quote Hapiel Replybullet Posted: 29 November 2020 at 9:36am
There are more sets being worked on atm than we might need, we'll wait for a bit to see how those develop, maybe in a month or 2 from now we will consider more options if not enough progress is being made.
Thanks for the suggestions everyone!
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Quote Hapiel Replybullet Posted: 03 February 2021 at 7:55am
Sci Fi icons from Drea:
Padawan, Secret Agent, Clone, Scientist, Artificial Intelligence, Time Traveller, Teleporter, Spaceman, Bio Mutant, Invader, Humanoid

That's the first finished set. Onwards to more!

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SeDiceBisonte
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Quote SeDiceBisonte Replybullet Posted: 04 February 2021 at 3:21am
Those are awesome! Nice one Drea.
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Quote Hapiel Replybullet Posted: 04 February 2021 at 10:24am
Pixel art themed icons from StevenM:

They are:
b/w; CGA; Game Boy; MSX; NES; GBC SNES; MS-DOS (doom); PS1 (Lomax/Castlevania; PS2(Tower of Babel; Pixeljoint;

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Quote SeDiceBisonte Replybullet Posted: 05 February 2021 at 3:27am
Also very cool!
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Hapiel
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Quote Hapiel Replybullet Posted: 22 February 2021 at 7:44am
Evolution set done:
These are:

Single cell,
nautiloid,
fish,
amphibian,
reptile,
bird,
mammal,
monkey
human,
pixel artist,
dolphin

The icons were a collaboration between me, Eliathx, MalevolentMask and an edit from Skamocore.

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jeremy
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Quote jeremy Replybullet Posted: Today at 3:33am
Waste set done:



Rank names:
Compost
Recycling
Litter
Rubbish
Trash
Garbage
Junk
Odds and Ends
Leftovers
Toxic Waste
Dumpster Fire
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