PIXEL ART REQUIRES REVISION!
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Pixel Art Details

user
Title: m00!
Pixel Artist: m00  (Level 1 Depressed :: 97 points)
Posted: 12/25/2007 05:49
Palette: 164 colors
Statistics:  28 comments    5 faves    0 avatars

Image Croped - to satisfy the clor count limits -mwahahahaha! Praise the color count.

This is a sort of a fantasy-ish auto portrait that could quickly summarize my style: big, cartoonsh, lots of colors, lots of blending work, detail and shine.  No idea if it'a a bad or a good thing, nevertheless, it just is.

Comments loved and welcome.

Discussion

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user
m00 (Level 1 Depressed) @ 12/30/2007 15:00

@ Jalonso. Right. Let's go for it!

"This image cropped as it it CAN be made using under 30 colors with NO (zero) visual difference at all whatsoever." I see the difference.  I see the freaking difference. that is why I made it look like this - not because I'm some anti-pixel art freak. And that is not the point. Why should you decide how many colors I use for my image? wth? Hybrids?  Because I have done every little bit of this AA making my hand hurt and no one is gonna tell me that it's not pixel art. Limited palettes, yes! Well they are limited to a ccertain numbe of colors taht you judge exessiv. So what?  ***Maaaaaay be it's just your personnal and humble opinion not to be taken for the univesal true? Who decided how many colors I am allowed to use? You do? Okay. Then state a constant and valid limit to consider for all the images. And I will respct this. The PJ rules do require a PNG8, and 0-256 colors, okay. But that's it!

@grave, I am sorry to interrupt your discussion, but your judgement is simply rude. If you mind reading the commets previsouly made on the picture you would see me stting that the colors were each manually chosen and placed. Means no filters/tools/etc. Thank you.

@Vertigo-Zero, it' perfectly fine to have a color limit, I do admit. Yet I would aks of it to be expressed explicitely and respected. If the limit IS 256, let me  post a 200-colors pieces. Or change the limit.


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jalonso (Level 11 Godfather) @ 12/30/2007 14:16
You now simply seem to be clueless about this whole matter.
Its not a magical color number. Its about color conservation for the image. Reducing/cropping or getting to a certain number is not what its about.

This image cropped as it it CAN be made using under 30 colors with NO (zero) visual difference at all whatsoever.

Color conservation and palette unification is very important in pixelart. You are making hybrids.

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grave (Level 9 Federal Agent) @ 12/29/2007 08:50

Yes and im not saying you must believe people who say that. especialy not when they are often obviously lying.
Infact. this piece probably isnt. (looks like it has a transparent orange overlay on the cheek)

However, that doesnt mean you should have a rule forbidding people to use the amount of colors they feel needed for their art.


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Vertigo-Zero (Level 9 Necrophiliac) @ 12/28/2007 02:19
Agreed with Jal and Mirre, you might find this offense but ive seen some ridiculous pieces in the qeue :S  Oh and grave, the colour limit might sound stupid but else ppl will say they just mixed every colour of a NPA... I would like to keep PJ pixel-art only! there are enough mixed art forums already...

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grave (Level 9 Federal Agent) @ 12/27/2007 05:37

Defined demoscene? I think not, cause there are plenty of demoscene artists who use stuff such as brushes with auto aa and stuff like that.

I think having a color limit for the site is stupid and would make this a much worse place to post pixelart if not all pixelart. no matter how pure it is. is alowed to be posted.


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m00 (Level 1 Depressed) @ 12/26/2007 15:57

What is wrong with your reading of my comments? Did I asked for acceptance of the PNG24 format - NO. I stated I was surprised by the standarts and taht I will now have them on my mind. Going further on, this is just becoming offinsive, ay so it is.

Thus, I have spent time and effort to make a pixel art piece,  and I did submit a diferent version of this picture fitting the requirements. NOW what is wrong?


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jalonso (Level 11 Godfather) @ 12/26/2007 15:43
Member's join Pixeljoint, Pixeljoint does not join members.
We have some rules, these have been discussed endlesslessy.
Making exceptions for one opens the door to exceptions for all.
No one is demanding that you change your artwork but this piece does not meet the Pixeljoint standards and cannot be included in the gallery.
You have shown in your other submissions that you are capable or adhering to pixelart standards.
Again, let's not discuss this endlessly. As Mirre mentioned below in time you'll understand, let's hope so anyways.

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m00 (Level 1 Depressed) @ 12/26/2007 15:19

@jalonso, really? well, this is the first time I hear such a strict definition of pixel art. Really. I'm not saying it's wrong though - yet it's just a total surprise for me. Demoscene doesn't tell me anything either, sorry, I'm no proffessionnal in pixelling. I should google it sometime, but for the moment I'd ask you to accept this piece as pixel art, because I can't and will not modify it to throw the half of the colors away because it is pointless - this picture wans't made for it. SO thank you for observation and suggestions and such, but I think this is quite enough now, so could you leave the color count be for a while?

@grave, this is what I thought as well, heym that's the only reason I am submittign this picture here=)

@Arosah, many thanks!^^


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jalonso (Level 11 Godfather) @ 12/26/2007 14:13
@grave, you have just defined demoscene. Pixelart does call for color conservation beyond the pixel control.

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grave (Level 9 Federal Agent) @ 12/26/2007 13:46
The only real definition of pixelart is to place everything one single pixel at a time. If a pixelart piece have a million colors but all are hand pixeled. Then that doesnt make it less pixelart.

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jalonso (Level 11 Godfather) @ 12/26/2007 13:14
tsk, tsk.
This is just not a good refelection on you

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Arzosah (Level 1 Rookie) @ 12/26/2007 08:56
I hope this get approved. I loved it the first time I saw it on EE and I still love it. It's simply fantastic! Gooorgeous colours, wonderful hair and aaahh the eye *loves* Very very beautiful <3

user
jalonso (Level 11 Godfather) @ 12/25/2007 20:26
I really hate it when this happens, really I do.

PixelJoint only allows GIG and PNG* files. Both these formats have 256 color limits therefore PJ has a color limit by default.

*There are many types of PNG files. The most common is PNG24 (your file is one). This is because it supports millions of colors and since most computer users are going for 'smoother' images all programs defaults to PNG24, including Photoshop. To get a PNG8 you must specify this in your output file.
The reason PixelJoint does not really specify the PNG8 detail is because the color usage is usually obvious and easily detected. Many members are more artistic than technical and therefore getting all specific with PNG8 would only cause confusion. It is also easy for the Mod team to detect pixels that go over the limit when using PNG24s.
To be honest I would, if it were up to me only allow gif file for the sake of simplicity. As to your question, yes, a file with exactly 256 colors is a red flag, usually indicating a piece is in fact not pixelart.
A big part of what makes a piece pixelart is color conservation. Essentially all computer generated art is made with pixels therefore conservation is a key definition of the style.

I do hope this does not cause you to not participate and continue pixelling. This would be a shame since you obviously have plenty of talent and skill. This matter is a technical issue and as is my custom I simply judge on technical specifications of the medium and not the artistic value, worth or merit of any piece.

user
m00 (Level 1 Depressed) @ 12/25/2007 15:08

leel, oh this griefs me a lot - I never use tools when I do pixel art, it would be such a waste of time! 0_o nice to see ya too!

Mirre, ay, I have een trying to cell-shade with very little AA, but every time m eyes urge for more blending >.> And I end up adding a dozen of color for each base color XD I'm so helpless.

Jalonso, okay I do understand your point. But It is basically unair for you to tell me how many colors I should use. As far as I know the notion of pixel art do NOT suppose any color/size limit. But oh, for general convinience, pixel art is mostly rather small, and for usage purpose, like color-limited display devices, pixel art also goes through color number limitations. So what? Means if you use 258 colors it ain't pixel art anymore? Certainly not.

Right, I'm not a pixel artist for a start, and and I probably should have been thinking about not using too many colors (for whatever unknown reason) and I could get myself to using limited palettes. I didn't. Fine! But I don't deserve people yelling at me I do wrong.

I got the point and will - if I ever do more pixel art in future - try to work with fewer colors.IF PJ has a color limit in it's rule, I'll obey it. I respect this. But please respect my work as well. Thank you.

Thanx everyone for comments and suggestions, and the piece of advice!


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jalonso (Level 11 Godfather) @ 12/25/2007 13:51
Screw the mob.
I cannot allow this many colors being put in a pixelart gallery. Its not fair to all the others, especially the demosceners who get a lot of grief for 200 colors.

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Jools64 (Level 2 Quiet One) @ 12/25/2007 13:33
waaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyy too many colours but otherwise awesome.

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Mirre (Level 8 Jellyfish) @ 12/25/2007 12:18
m00: this is truly a great piece, and I don't really doubt that you have added all of those colours yourself. What I think though, is that you have missed the "control over every single pixel" part of pixelart. The cheek could have been done just as good with much, much less colours using AA and dithering techniques. You seem to grasp art and colour techniques very well otherwise so maybe you could look on it as a challenge -  to try to restrict your colour count. It was one of my personal problems with pixelart at first.

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jalonso (Level 11 Godfather) @ 12/25/2007 12:07
Well, I give in to the mob.
FYI, PJ limits colors to 256, sooooooooooo...

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leel (Level 5 Killer Klown) @ 12/25/2007 12:00
woot! Glad to see you here :D

And just my two cents: the first time I saw this on EE I thought it was mix of pixels and tools, but zooming in now it look pretty pixelly XD 

I'd love to see you experiment more with limited palettes though

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m00 (Level 1 Depressed) @ 12/25/2007 07:43

Well I am using Lasso and fill tools in photoshop,but I usually check carefully that I have diabled the AA for those. NO smuggle/dodge/burn/blur tools EVER, I don't even use those for non-pixel art, they stink. The pinkish areas do have a whooole lot of colors, indeed! But they have all been added manually=) I mean I just keep ading more colors until I don't have enough place for them to fit, is it so wrong?? I still find the gradient of her cheeck too rough btw. Check the step-by-step progress: http://img164.imageshack.us/img164/3940/m00tutorialcv8.gif 

Thank you for the welcome and comments ^^

Saving as PNG8 is fine, but  what if I use more then 255 colors? Like 300 or so? It won't be saved in the png8...the color range will just be cropped? 


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Lovec Upírov (Level 5 Detective) @ 12/25/2007 07:24
lol nice good work

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jalonso (Level 11 Godfather) @ 12/25/2007 07:11
Click on the pixel to bring up the analyzer. Hit the 'i' to see the color count.
I did zoom in and it is fantastic, and true pixelart, no doubt. I just questioned the cheek area where to many random colors are. This area is the main culprit. Although the nose seems very high in color count.
If not in the saving, perhaps you were using tools with some AA tolerance at the time of pixelling which always cause weird things to happen.
Anyhoo, no offense and I do welcome you to PJ by finally showing yourself to us. I am sure this is just a technical issue.
If you use Photoshop perhaps saving for web as a png8 of straight gif is advisible. Just saving as png gets you a png24, which supports millions of colors.

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Doomcreator0 (Level 5 Assistant Manager) @ 12/25/2007 06:49

 The hair and everything is like 90% pixel art. And then the face is like 5% because it looks smudged or something.

Sorry.


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skeddles (Level 11 Sphinx) @ 12/25/2007 06:45
Welcome to Pj, this looks great. Although im going have to agree with Jal, and say that that many colors just isn't pixel art. But, it doesn't look like it has that many colors. Maybe something went wrong with the saving?

EDIT: Guess I was right. =]

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m00 (Level 1 Depressed) @ 12/25/2007 06:39
I have no idea why the color count have been screwed, yet it is pixel art, and you can realise it is if you zoom in and look closely at the shading. On the othe hand there must be something wrong with the saving mode I use... if the color count is really over thena thousand its kinda strange. 

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jalonso (Level 11 Godfather) @ 12/25/2007 06:11
With 1132 colors it is simply not pixelart. The cheek area may have some FX or blending tool action going on. The pixelart areas are awesome but something is very wrong here.

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Hapiel (Level 11 Bonsai) @ 12/25/2007 05:59
lots of colors, I think too much, but still, if this is real pixel art this is awesome!

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Walrus (Level 3 Stalker) @ 12/25/2007 05:53
wow! its just great! awesome!

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