If you would like to comment you will need to be logged in. Register now. It only takes a moment and it's free.

PixelDust (Level 6 Serial Killer) @ 3/19/2018 10:10

I didn't think about that
makes perfect sense thanks for the bit of computer magic

eishiya (Level 5 Detective) @ 3/19/2018 10:02

"but when you upload the updated preview be sure to change the name as well (preview to preview_update for example) otherwise it will not actually update your file"

This isn't quite correct. It WILL update your file, but anyone who has the old file cached (which will include you) will see the old file until they hard-refresh (Ctrl+F5 on Win/Linux; Cmd+Shift+R on Mac) or clear the cache.

@newGuy: The new preview image is working. It's not on the front page because it's too old now. Updating the preview doesn't bump your piece back up to being recently uploaded.

newGuy (Level 3 Enforcer) @ 3/17/2018 22:27

Thanks! I updated a couple hours back and it still isn't there, could you confirm the new one (5.92 kB) shows up for you?

PixelDust (Level 6 Serial Killer) @ 3/17/2018 19:09

once you update the preview it will show up on the front page
although it might take a while before it will show up so don't worry if it doesn't show up immediately

but when you upload the updated preview be sure to change the name as well (preview to preview_update for example) otherwise it will not actually update your file

you can use the PJ image-spec tool to check if the correct file was uploaded you can do this by right-clicking the preview image and choosing Copy image location then past it into the image-spec text field
then it should show you the size of the image

newGuy (Level 3 Enforcer) @ 3/17/2018 18:31

and for the reason it is not showing on the front page is because the preview image is over 10KB

Oh, damn, that was it. Been so long since I posted here, I completely forgot about that restriction.

Will updating it now do me any good, or is it gone from the front page forever?

PixelDust (Level 6 Serial Killer) @ 3/17/2018 18:20

If it is about your piece Dungeon Party
it is showing up in the "newest Pixel art"
and for the reason it is not showing on the front page is because the preview image is over 10KB (currently 11KB)
it will not show up until you reduce the size of the preview to something smaller than 10 KB

ParkerBabyDiaperCompany (Level 4 Team Leader) @ 3/17/2018 18:19

It's showing up in the new pixel art section for me. 

newGuy (Level 3 Enforcer) @ 3/17/2018 18:04

Hey, my latest submission isn't showing up in the queue or the 'new pixel art' section. It's also no longer under approval for me. Has it gone to some weird PJ limbo, or is it just a matter of time until it pops up?

pyrometal (Level 8 Guerrilla) @ 3/17/2018 05:36

Maybe I'll just jump in here. I'm one of the mods in favour of no prescaling at all and I'm very strict about it. My reasoning is a lot more on the technical end though.

  1. x1 gives the general user the ability to choose the appropriate zoom level for the device they are viewing on. x2 may look good to you on your screen but may not be optimal on others.
  2. Prescaled images automatically removes valid scaling factors. For example, a piece scaled to x2 can only be cleanly scaled to x4, x6, and so on.
  3. Futureproofing. At the moment PJ leaves a lot to be desired in terms of functionality but PJv4 could and should have an autoscaling feature of some kind. It could even let artists specify the preferred zoom depending on how it's implemented.

There has been some art that was approved prescaled in the past. What I would like to do for PJv4 is write a script that would scan through the gallery, detect these cases, then convert these back into x1, and set the preferred viewing scale (as per point 3 above).

Before anyone brings out any pitchforks, these are not decisions I get to make unilaterally, so don't panic

brullov (Level 1 Rookie) @ 3/17/2018 01:51


Can I give you a link of the Cure's tutorial? There you can find what true pixel art means. 

Curth (Level 4 Lieutenant) @ 3/16/2018 18:58

If you let the experts do it then the newbies are going to look at them and think they can do it to. That was my main issue about the ambiguity. Most are not going to be looking in-depth through the rules, they are going to look at other people's submissions.

Also I dont think it was ever a debate about whether or not you guys were going to give the exception or not, because you made it clear you did not go that way. Just the fact that exceptions like that were being debated at all, it was kind of shocking.

CritiqueMyWork (Level 7 Captain) @ 3/16/2018 13:50

Given that the site allows you to magnify i see no reason to submit a piece in anything other than x1 but is not like the world is going to end if you make an exception to someone who knows the rules. Is more an annoyance when newbies do it and is good to force the rule upon them or 80% of what we see would be at x5.

Hapiel (Level 11 Admiral) @ 3/16/2018 11:51

@zizka, I'm not saying im either for or against exceptions, just stating that it was being discussed, just like many works in the queue are discussed all the time. No exception was made. 

Also, the 2x is an unwritten rule which were experimenting with, and different mods are able to apply it in whichever way they seem fit. Should something end up in the gallery which you think doesn't belong there it can be reported, we always look over those again. Should anything be rejected and you disagree or don't understand, you can request classification or rectification in the forums. 

Seeing the system from both the outside for many years as well as from the inside I am convinced that PJ does a really good job overall. But again, improvements can be suggested through the forums :)

Zizka (Level 10 Operative) @ 3/16/2018 09:40

 The mods are discussing if they want to make an exception for you because of the extraordinary quality of the work. 

Sorry Hapiel, but that's nonsense in my opinion. I'm baffled someone might even think: ''Well, that guy is good so rules don't need to apply.'' What's the point of having a rule if it only applies to some people. 

Either have the rule or don't have it at all. 

Hapiel (Level 11 Admiral) @ 3/16/2018 09:30

@kasumi, theoretically it's possible but we have very limited possibilities to change the functionality of PJ. So no... If we can scan images in the future, the first thing on my list would be automated warnings for high color counts! 

@brullov, oof, what is true pixel art? We're trying to find that out for quite a while. If you're interested in discussing what should and shouldn't go in the gallery please leave a reply here :)

brullov (Level 1 Rookie) @ 3/16/2018 08:26

I think the rules must be only about true pixel art.

Kasumi (Level 1 Rookie) @ 3/16/2018 07:35

I wonder. Couldn't 2X (or 3X etc) images be detected and display a warning on upload?

Theoden (Level 6 SWAT) @ 3/16/2018 07:24

I agree with Curth, exceptions sound bad.
I think everyone should be subject to the rules.

Curth (Level 4 Lieutenant) @ 3/15/2018 17:27

Gotta get that art pretty enough to get that "2x upload privilege". I feal like you really shouldent be making exceptions like that....Just go with one way or let people to whatever. Dont be like, "Well uuuhh this person is more skilled, so he doesent need policies!"

Hapiel (Level 11 Admiral) @ 3/15/2018 15:39

In regards to clarifying the approval process: all artwork is manually approved. Artwork with no issues typically get approved in order of submission, and were actively trying to get all artwork a fair amount of front page exposure in the "newest artwork" row. 

In the case of your work it's experiencing a small delay because it is scaled up. We've recently become more strict on our "no 2x" policy as more and more upscaled art gets submitted every day. This rule will soon appear on the submission page too. The mods are discussing if they want to make an exception for you because of the extraordinary quality of the work. 

But don't worry, our decision wont take forever. Some items remain in the queue for more than a week, we're only at half a day with yours now ... 

Edit: ah, your last comment came while I was typing this. Thanks for submitting the 1x version, it will soon be approved! 

As for why we don't allow up scaled art any more: we're trying to get a consistently presented gallery which is as viewable as possible on all devices. Also, unnecessarily upscaled artworks were very present in the queue and we wanted equal treatment for all pieces. My personal opinion is that up scaling can change your artwork from pixel art to a mosaic of squares. 

brullov (Level 1 Rookie) @ 3/15/2018 15:36

I also can't update the preview image for my Arthas piece. It's actually the same, but I'd like to remove black frame. 

brullov (Level 1 Rookie) @ 3/15/2018 15:31


First, I'd like people not to use zoom button. Second, I'd like to use my PJ gallery as a reference for my portfolio on other forums etc. 2x upscale is annoying for who and why? If it's annoying than why my previous work was approved and did not annoy anyone? I can't see any strong argument, I can only see the great power of admins. 
Arguing is a foolish thing, the guy with "approve button" is always right, I've uploaded the normal version. Hope it will help!

Theoden (Level 6 SWAT) @ 3/15/2018 14:54


There's more banding than actual pixel art, wow.

DawnBringer (Level 10 Maniac) @ 3/15/2018 14:22

PJ has a zoom function. Upscales are just annoying here. 

@king b: Eww...the ugly lovechildren of banding and pillowshading! :D

brullov (Level 1 Rookie) @ 3/15/2018 13:43

The artworks which were submitted after mine have been approved. No hurry, I am just interested in the process of approving.

king_bobston (Level 10 Capo) @ 3/15/2018 13:27

I think I've found the best example of banding I've come accross so far:

Pokemon "Smart Contest Winners"

cure (Level 11 Godfather) @ 3/15/2018 12:55

Patience young padawan. It's been a few hours, what's the hurry? 

brullov (Level 1 Rookie) @ 3/15/2018 12:49

Hey admins, could you explain why my last art work isn't aprroved? It's going happen again, my art will be approved too late and a few people will recoginse it. 

As for the upscale, I used 2x upscale for Diablo Mock Up and it was ok. I really like the look of my work only with  upscale. Thanks.

ROM (Level 1 Private) @ 3/15/2018 06:42

"It's possible to guess accurately, but the range of ways you could get to a given result is enormous"

All roads lead to Rom"e" ^^

Interesting comment Neota, thank you all for your answers.

neota (Level 7 Ichikyu) @ 3/14/2018 19:29

If the PJ gallery is supposed to be educational (which I think it is in part), then more transparency would be good. However, this must be voluntary AFAICS -- tracking and reporting on methods can be onerous, and we don't want to put up additional barriers to submission.

If you want to do the ideal thing, in my mind that would consist of a short WIP animation (5 frames, say) and a clear explanation of any non-basic methods (methods like pencil tool, bucket fill, copy, paste are basic -- essentially unavoidable.). As contrasted with, say, a longer (20+ frames) WIP animation, but very little explanation of any non-basic methods. The former case would give a fuller picture.

Not a fan of the practice of trying to guess what methods were used. It's possible to guess accurately, but the range of ways you could get to a given result is enormous, so you're much more likely to be wrong. This is a major reason behind the recurring discussions about purity, I think.

king_bobston (Level 10 Capo) @ 3/13/2018 15:29


If you want to test your thesis, the best way would be to do a piece yourself with the method you assume to be used (one you don't rush, like the vader one) and submit it to see what happens.

I fear everything else is just moving in circles, riling things up.


JerryPie (Level 11 Godfather) @ 3/12/2018 19:13

@ROM - I admire your enthusiasm and curiosity for the pixel process so far.  You haven't said anything hurtful which is commendable, but it might have been better to post these examples in the beginning.  I think the delaunay triangulation method looks really interesting!   It's possible some artists here have used algorithms, but I strongly believe Koyot1222 did not use anything out of the ordinary.  That being said, with a better understanding of pixel art you will quickly realize why we're convinced the Vader and dragon images were created by hand. 

By practicing pixel art you will most likely begin to change your stance.  I personally would love to see you join us by submitting a few pieces of art into the gallery.  We have a WIP forum to help along the way if you have any questions.  IMO you'd be a quick learner based on this conversation alone. 

ROM (Level 1 Private) @ 3/12/2018 18:26


No, definitely I will not be able to make me understand it's certain :(
I will not insist it does not matter, I understand your explanations, but it is not reciprocal and we finally fall into a deaf language.
Of course I did not apply myself to drawing over the last stage, but I did this editing in 20 minutes to demonstrate my thesis.
many think like me but do not dare say it in public, and seeing the reaction of some I understand them.

I will not bother you any longer, sorry if I made you waste time, know that I will not keep resentment on my side.


I never said that it was not done by hand, my god I feel lonely ...
I'm talking about help ... process steps ... as in phase drawing over a layer, it's an example among others ... fiuuuuu, hard drive.


Even children know this technique, sic ...

Hapiel (Level 11 Admiral) @ 3/12/2018 18:15

I am obviously not saying that automation can't be done (remember I referenced a case where it had), and also it is clear to me and everyone that automation tools are improving. I'm very happy to discuss these tools, their applications, the ethicality of using them on works in our gallery, etc. (I do think that the chatterbox might not be the right place for it, therefor my earlier suggestion to move this topic to a thread in the forum)

However, in my long time here at PJ I have not seen much evidence of increased usage of such tools being used in pieces that get into the gallery. Some works are questionable, which I've tried to start discussions about too, but most of the time without hand refinement these works fail to grab a lot of attention.

Very much unlike the Darth Vader image,which is currently on the second spot in the weekly top. I see however a huge difference in your version of it compared to Koyot's, and I still see no reason at all to doubt if his was handmade. And I guess there lies the answer to your question: To be able to tell the difference between automated work and hand made work no technical tool available to us yet can give us an ultimate answer. However, a lot of experience in watching hand made artwork will train the instincts and understanding required to tell the difference between hand made and generated. I would not claim that my instinct and understanding are perfect, but once again I do see a huge difference between your clearly generated image and the clearly hand-triangulated/pixelled version from Koyot.

EDIT: Paddy was a bit faster than me with his reply, I very much agree with him.

Paddy (Level 2 Hired Gun) @ 3/12/2018 18:06

I think the issue you might have with being unable to recognize that that Darth Vader piece wasn't created using some sort of scripts is due to some sort of lack of understanding of pixel technique. At a quick glance one can instantly distinguish that his piece wasn't created using scripts. There aren't any blatant irregularities in pixel placement etc that can be easily recognized in the example you've given. Whilst some parts appear to be colour reduced (mainly the shoulders and edges of the helmet) though I might be wrong, the majority of the piece has clearly been placed by the artist.

Unsure if it's just me missunderstanding your google translated messages or not but my general feeling is you believe that the Vader piece has been made using a technique you have showcased? I strongly disagree.

Also, you made claims about that dragon piece and have yet to back up anything surrounding that. It's probably best you don't make claims about individuals or their work without actually having some sort of valid reason for doing so, it can come off as an attempt at "witch hunting". 

ROM (Level 1 Private) @ 3/12/2018 17:34

So in the end not enough to whip a cat, but, and I repeat myself, it is just damaging to have no element of transparency in the process.
I do not target this artist specifically, he looks talented and friendly, but to listen to you, no one uses these tools ... since no one notifies them ...
and I am Prince Charles!

Basically I asked a question and Theoden answered me perfectly.
In conclusion, and to make an analogism, what will differentiate in the near future PixelJoint DeviantArt will be limited only to the calibration of the image on one side to meet the technical restriction requested.
Image processing is day after day more and more successful.
It is an observation, point, deny equals to ostrich.
But it's cute anyway ostriches;)

ROM (Level 1 Private) @ 3/12/2018 17:33

The example of my Darth Vader did not convince Hapiel so unfortunately I will have to be even more explicit by showing the process stages of this work "which in passing is very successful, well done to its author".
* Attention, it must be taken into consideration that all scripts, algorithms, fitres etc ... are parametrizable to infinity so obviously that the result will remain as different as it involves fingerprints in the population.









ROM (Level 1 Private) @ 3/12/2018 17:33

... and forgive my grumpy side, I'm french haha.

To return to the subject, I noted the lack of transparency as a whole on the totality of the works posted.
It is not dramatic I can see it but I find it damageable all the same.
I'm not talking about fraudulent rip, but rather as Theoden points out, use in the process whether it's at the beginning, in progress or at the stage of finalization, algorithms, softwares, filters, scripts, ref, illustrations " even personal "etc ...

Then there is only the result that counts, but for the rest, it is impossible to differentiate an old-fashioned work pixel by pixel of a work mixing processes.
And as emphasized by some, we can only trust the good faith of the author so ...
impossible to categorize works pixel by pixel in the PixelJoint image bank.
It's an observation after this is not so serious, I just wanted to have confirmation of my thesis.
My goal is not to focus on tensions.

Fleja2003 (Level 6 SWAT) @ 3/12/2018 17:25

[Erased message because Ive found solution]

Paddy (Level 2 Hired Gun) @ 3/12/2018 17:13

waiting for "the evidence". spicy. 

Mandrill (Level 8 Partner) @ 3/12/2018 16:56

Damn, Elk! Now I'm hungry. I'd kill to have some fast food right now!

Hapiel (Level 11 Admiral) @ 3/12/2018 16:00

mmmmm, thank you Elk :)

Elk (Level 5 Assistant Manager) @ 3/12/2018 15:44


ROM (Level 1 Private) @ 3/12/2018 15:25

Houlala, I do not think many people understand my words except for Theoden and MrHai.
Your grandiloquent tone is ridiculous, who is talking about witch hunt?
This subject is as I thought, taboo, very well I take note, my goal was not to look for problems but rather to find answers.
Obviously not happy to have no humor, Mr. Hapiel is quite limited in his answers.
You want to have evidence, very well, I will provide tonight, but it will be evidence that demonstrates a process of mixed processes in the creation of the work.
I do not mean "cheating" or "fraud", because often as Theoden pointed out, at most it's a help, the artist finishing the work of his own talent.

JerryPie (Level 11 Godfather) @ 3/12/2018 12:17

Nothing about the image in question looks like it was created with npa tools. At most the artist may have traced their own drawing which is 100% legitimate. If you make an accusation, be prepared to back it up fully. This is an unnecessary witch hunt and I don't see anything productive coming from it. 

Theoden (Level 6 SWAT) @ 3/12/2018 10:10

I feel like this topic has an unwanted potential to turn into a purist discussion.
ROM, although there's no certain way to tell if the artist used image editing tools or not, we should never jump to any conclusions.

It is not that big of a deal anyway :)

Hapiel (Level 11 Admiral) @ 3/12/2018 08:20

@CritiqueMyWork: Artwork can be

seen here

@ROM: So you are accusing Koyot of using automated effects in his Darth Vader? Seems a bit far fetched to me, showing us the reference image (which Koyot did not supply) is no proof. What triangulation algorithm? Can you generate a similar image from the same source image yourself?

I'm frustrated that you place this accusation without much proof. Why do you suggest that I owe you? Have I said something wrong?

ROM (Level 1 Private) @ 3/12/2018 05:23

I'll answer you tonight, I'm going to work, but I want to answer you because comrade, you raise a misunderstanding in my remarks and I want to explain concretely with examples to clarify the subject.
Thank you for your attentio

Theoden understood very well the substance of my thought.

CritiqueMyWork (Level 7 Captain) @ 3/12/2018 04:45

I'm not arguing people won't try to cheat, there have been some cases in the past as Hapiel indicated, but still i don't see why exactly you pointed out that dragon. Which one do you think is the source?

And by the way, it is a shame banned profiles don't display the submitted works anymore, would be curious to see how the art was.

ROM (Level 1 Private) @ 3/12/2018 04:42

Aaaaah, thank you, a clear, technical, realistic, concise and impartial answer !

of 20

This Week's Pixel Art

The Crate icon/pixelartMoonlit Shrine icon/pixelartL'Arachel (x1.5 upscale) icon/pixelartYugi "cheats" Mutou icon/pixelart

Random Pixel Art

Pale Bubblegum Avatar icon/pixelart
Antiaris Mod Logo (2017) icon/pixelart


Want to give some dough back to all those amazing pixel artists? Donations provide prize money for contests, help cover hosting costs and support new initiatives.