The Ger-men consider BANNING videogames


The CSU (Christian Social Union) of Germany want to ban violent videogames. Madness, I say! Sheuer stated in an interview that those games "have no place in Germany's bedrooms."

Fortunately enough for all bloodlusted Germans, the vote might not get through. Hang in there, Hans!

News ghetted from

Posted by Brian the Great @ 11/19/2005 14:36  |    19 | Source


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sedgemonkey (Level 11 Master Assassin) @ 12/7/2005 08:14

Btw, "ideal world" arguments are not what I am trying to make.  In an ideal world I would imagine the governments of the world providing good schools and health care to all children too, but we all know that will never happen.

Censorship has nothing to do with the USA at all either.  The USA certainly has some laughable contradictions with censorship as I'm sure most other free countries do, but it's still a country that fundamentally believes in the idea of freedom of speech.  It's a very basic human right to be able to express yourself without fear of being punished by your government. 

Another side note... I'm playing Resident Evil 4 right now and it is just about the best damn game I've played on GameCube.  You're telling me my tastes for videogames are invalid?  You get to decide that for me? 

me7356 (Level 4 Murderer) @ 12/1/2005 10:23
"Oh and If your kid goes out and shoots someone because you have a gun in your house, it is your fault. Why should it be any different for video games?"

No, do you know how easy it is to get a gun these days? Pretty damn easy if you ask me.

It's not always the parent's fault. They can play these games at friends' houses, demos in stores, the internet, and other places where their parents aren't watching. Of course, this isn't to say that it's always the fault of somebody else. It's the parents who suck at raising their kids.

And about the sex part, I's have to agree. You see sex and violence on TV, but mostly violence. It's the same there, most people think that sex is innappropriate for their kids to see, though that bomb that their kid just layed in the building with people in it in that new videogame is alright. Would you rather have a murderer son, or a son that has sex when he's 13? He's bound to get laid in highschool anyway, so why bother censoring it? It's like trying to stop a freight train with your hands.

Shivers (Level 1 Rookie) @ 11/27/2005 22:20
If anything Im sure most here would complain about how the US is also pulling this crap, you seem to make a lot of assumptions. I don't think anyone here is on a moral high horse. If anything we're complaining that there's too much of thise "OMG THINK OF MORALS"crap instead of "Have some damn responsibility" .

"Looking at the US from an outsider's view"

I'm Canadian. Do I  not count as an outsiders view?

Oh and If your kid goes out and shoots someone because you have a gun in your house, it is your fault. Why should it be any different for video games?

"In an ideal world I would agree with you - everyone should have the freedom to read, play and do what they like... but we are not living in an ideal world"

An ideal world to me and many others would be people being held responsible for their actions instead of expecting businesses and Television to play babysitter.

DayDream (Level 4 Deputy) @ 11/27/2005 15:00
I brought up the sex / violence because of the outrage sex scenes in games cause is so much bigger than gruesome slaying of people with chainsaws - now to me the later would be more of a problem. The question that is bothering me is simply "Why is there an cry for change when sex scenes in GTA where found but being able to cruely blow up a human figure in a 1st person shooter is considered normal ?"

Is killing human game characters considerd normal these days? I am working as an art director on computer games and refuse to have players kill people in out games. As there is no need for blood and gore to make a good game - just as much as there is no need for cruelty and gore to make a good horror movie.

...but blood and gore sells well... which to me shows a general problem with society.

Looking at the US from an outsider's view the whole freedom of speech idea has been undermined and eroded in so many places that only the idea of it is left. How can live shows be required a 5 min delay to prevent people from saying something the editors do not find suitable... To me the US should take a few steps back - from their self-proclaimed "military and moral sheriff of the world" position - and look at their own system and ask some questions about democracy and the rights of individual and I am sure some of the answers won't be pleasant... and do not justify the "high moral horse" you are sitting on... but this leads way off topic.

In an ideal world I would agree with you - everyone should have the freedom to read, play and do what they like... but we are not living in an ideal world. Too many parents do not look at their kids games in an controlling way. You can either say ok - that's the parent fault and we will let those kids play whatever they can get their hands on - or look for ways to make parents aware of the cruelity and gore in some of those games. If the campaign to outlaw some games in Germany serves that purpose I am all for it. All it will do is force game makers to rethink their ways to do games and parents to look at the games their kids play. If a great game is under threat to be outlawed in Germany I am sure they will find ways to modify it to get onto a lucrative market like Germany.

Shivers (Level 1 Rookie) @ 11/27/2005 04:08
Excuse the double post but, daydream why are you bringing up sex? None of us said anything about it here as far as I can read until after your posted about it. How do you know we're immediately against sex in video games? I find it strange as well that people are more tolerant of violence than sex. As Sedge said, Adults should be able to purchase these games if they wish. I was taught art through books, which many featured nudes so sex and nudity do not phase me.

   A lot of misquoted research leads people to freak out about sex in video games as well. Even when I was only 12 I was told that children being exposed to pornography made them violent. Which makes no sense to me.

Shivers (Level 1 Rookie) @ 11/27/2005 04:00
"Adults should have the freedom to create and purchase any content they want. Anything less is completely unacceptable. Period."

Agreed. Its ridiculous to make products harder to get because people who aren't supposed to be getting them are getting them. Parents need to be responsible for their children if they don't want them playing. Stop letting the TV parent your kid or get sterlized for pete sake.

sedgemonkey (Level 11 Master Assassin) @ 11/23/2005 08:32

One last time for clarity... games should have an enforced age appopriate system just like we have protections with guns, driving, voting, drinking, smoking, drugs, movies, porn, etc. This has nothing to do with BANNING or CENSORING content for ANY reason for adults. Adults should have the freedom to create and purchase any content they want. Anything less is completely unacceptable. Period.

Side note:  I'm not a huge fan of GTA3, but to dismiss it as a horrible game is missing the big picture. Whether you "like" the game or not GTA3 there's no denying the open ended gameplay has had a profound impact on gaming in the last few years.  It wasn't the first game to have open ended gameplay, but it certainly popularized it.

Stella818 (Level 1 Rookie) @ 11/23/2005 08:12

 Why do people like horrible games, anyway? Have anyone ever seen what the top games in America are? They are always stuff like Grand Auto Theft and Destory All Humans. I totally believe in freedom, but what good do these games do? Teenage kids would just sit in their room all day feasting their eyes and minds on theft and desturction, death and violence, porn and sex. Considering all of this, maybe they should not totally ban them, but just restrict them some how... I dunno.

sedgemonkey (Level 11 Master Assassin) @ 11/22/2005 17:03
Who are you to decide what is "too" violent?  Banning, censoring, whatever you want to call it is completely unconstitutional (at least in the USA) and I really worry when people think that is a solution.

me7356 (Level 4 Murderer) @ 11/22/2005 09:13
Reminds of one time when I saw some kid in Office Max, where some kid wanted to buy some M rated game, and the kid was 7, and the parents are like "Is there any sex in it? No? Ok, you can buy it, Timothy!". It was painful to watch the kid be happy with it. The parents were stupid and irresponsible, and that was completely their fault. Now, I'm on both sides with this one,  they shouldn't be selling games that are just excessive violence, violence, and more violence. All games based on violence actually don't have tons of blood and gore, or at least the ones that I played on the list. If they really want to ban all blood and gore, just make the companies censor the blood and gore, or bring it down to a minimal level. Since when are games supposed to realistic, with all the violence? Games aren't based off violence, they're based off fun, and having all the blood and violence is just ridiculous and not needed. Games are virtual, and will never be real, so why attempt the make them real? Young kids might not be able to percieve the difference between fact and fiction. Violent non-strategic FPS's are the most unoriginal, violence-induced games, and just create killers. I say we ban all the filthy, unoriginal FPS's in the market, they're just not that fun, it's all the same, shoot, kill, repeat. You can try to argue, but you're wrong, "Hey me7356, this one's in space, and used lasers instead of guns!" It's still the same, shoot, kill, repeat. What happened to Mario, Pacman, Sonic, and the non-violent classics? It's just all gone to hell.

sedgemonkey (Level 11 Master Assassin) @ 11/20/2005 01:51

"To me there is no need for games driven by excessive violence."

You kind of sum up my point here.  Your definition of "excessive violence" is obviously subjective and other people might not agree with your defintion . Adults should have the right to make up their own minds about what content they want to purchase -- not have their minds made up for them by anyone. Would you like it if I decided what games you could play or what movies you could watch?  Don't you think you are capable of making those decisions for yourself? You want some stodgy out of touch government official telling you what a good game is?

Btw, I agree that there's a lack of creativity in breaking out of genres in game development, but it's silly to assume that the number of shooters and strategy games produced over the years  isn't driven by consumer demand. 

DayDream (Level 4 Deputy) @ 11/20/2005 00:09
How come when it comes to violence [ and guns ] the banning seems such a huge problem yet when it comes to porn suddenly it's a different story... GTA - one of your acclaimed titles - didn't have problems with killing people yet when sex scenes were found everyone was quick to point the finger at them and it's been banned in various countries...

Now explain to me why a sex scene is worse than killing people... sorry... but I just can't understand that... Having sex is a normal and accepted fact of life - just tabooed beyond reason - yet killing a human being is against the law in every civilized country but ok in videogames.

To me there is no need for games driven by excessive violence.  And the arguement that parents are responsible is again an illusion of a perfect society... we are raising a generation of mentally disturbed, physical unfit couch potatoes with great skills in remote killing - which explains why the US Army has it's own game...

Games can be a lot of fun without killing as it's main topic - but due to good marketing and a lack of the risk taking on the side of major publishers the 1st person shooter made it to the top of the charts in the past 10 years - with an unlimited amount of clones, copies and variations each claiming to be more realistic and offering a more intense experience. 

sedgemonkey (Level 11 Master Assassin) @ 11/19/2005 22:06

I have to vehemently disagree DayDream...

I don't think any government has the right to tell their citizens what they can and can't read, watch, listen to, play.  It's a parent's responsibilty to know what their children are doing.  I agree that retailers shouldn't be selling inappropriate games, movies, books to children, but that just seems like common sense. 

Sure there are crappy games that exploit violence. On the other hand, there's hundreds of high quality games out there that are completely driven by violence. I'm not much of a console gamer so I'll just use PC games as an example... Doom 3, Half-Life, Counter-Strike, Battlefield 2, F.E.A.R., Call of Duty, Day of Defeat, Medal of Honor, Unreal Tournament, StarCraft, WarCraft, Diablo, Age of Empires, Halo, GTA3, etc, etc, etc.  These are the absolute cream of the crop in PC games -- these games have won every conceivable award and accolade from the gaming press and fans continue to enjoy a lot of these games for years in multiplayer. Are you telling me some government (Germany for instance) has any right to tell the millions of fans that they're wrong for playing these violent games?  Hell, even popular boardgames like Risk and chess have violent themes.

People pick on any new medium that they don't have a connection to...  bans have been called for comicbooks and rock and roll too. It's absurd. Frankly, anything less than COMPLETE freedom of speech for adults (beyond threats of violence) is disgraceful in my humble opinion.

halfliquid (Level 1 Private) @ 11/19/2005 21:09
Turning people who die into zombies and turning red blood into green blood, OK, I'll tolerate, but completely banning violent games? Have they done studies there that correlate selling violent videogames into, well, anything else besides improving the economy with the money made with them?


DayDream (Level 4 Deputy) @ 11/19/2005 17:44
It's not quiet as simple as it sounds. The current system in place in Germany rates games much like movies to protect minors from porn and violence. Sadly the games getting "adults only" status seem to be the most popular among minors - so much for the system backfiring and creating a grey market. Also with online ordering the ban won't make much of a difference but to the retailers missing out on some big titles. Even though the system might not work 100% it's still better than no control at all. Let's face it - some of the games use violence and gore to make up for a lously gameplay. Do we really need games like that ? And would you want to see your 5 year old son/ brother/ cousin get joy slaying human characters with all sorts of weapons ? The "free speech advocates" among you might argue that it is just a interactive piece of fiction and there should be no limitation or ban to any game - this is a noble idea and would definetly work in a perfect society - but driven by profits, perveted views on violence and a lack of willingness to engage in non-violent games it's not working. There's simply too much money to be made with the title of the "cruelest, most revolting, blood and gutt spilling, realisticly creepy, plain sick" videogame ever made.

Brian the Great (Level 8 Brigadier General) @ 11/19/2005 15:38
Might, may, is most probable to... Who cares for a single word.

Faktablad (Level 6 SWAT) @ 11/19/2005 15:13
What do you mean, "might" not get through?

sedgemonkey (Level 11 Master Assassin) @ 11/19/2005 14:53

I'm hoping this won't make it through, but this kind of attitude is really unfortunate regardless.  I hate to hear about stiffling free speech in any country, but is very disappointing to hear such a historically tolerant society such as Germany considering it.

I kid, I kid.

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