No collabs? That means no colored linearts etc. for now?
ok...

I go with D-P

I've learned how to deal with it. but it can be really anoying when you're short on time.

@Larwick: The search thing that Adarias mentioned really is very annoying.

I really really like the Pixeljoint page and Im very happy wiht it. Just wanted to say that.

I think our upcoming solution to dealing with collabs will really be a great thing for PJ in the long run -- hopefully encouraging people to post more of their collabs here. I don't think anyone would have a problem with that.

except that they can't be submitted like that, or at least, they're asking us not to until they figure things out.

Collabs can be still submitted to the site(like this). this whole stuff is just to set how the point/score/trophy system will be implemented and how rights/credits would be oficialized and distribuited.

Its all about how the staff can sort it, and how can we help them.

yeah, i first read this more as "collaborations are banned until we can figure out what to do about all the problems your guys are making." 

It's not bad at all if it's just "hold off a moment until we can make things run smoother," but it's still, I think,  unnecessary (and my experience with website staffs in general, not that this has anything to do with pixeljoint, is that" temporary" can last for months before anyone puts real work into the cool new thing they started, so this could mean a rather extended period of forbidding collabs.)

I don't know, Adarias... I don't see how this is censorship? Maybe I didn't understand what the idea was here, because I really have no idea how this could censor anyone.
Id guess people just realized there is more and more collaboration work, and we could guess that if there were systems implemented just for that, it could inspire more people to do collaborations?
Unless I missed something? Did people abuse the term "collaboration" somehow lately?

my point larwick is that there are thousands of little things like that that could be fixed instead of seeking out enormous jobs that will create a thousand new little things that could be fixed.  just an opinion.

I have no idea about programming implications of updating the submission page or how complex it would be, but "Badassbill's" option sounds like a very good idea.

Adarias the problem is that the members themselves have asked for this new step to be taken, and so we're trying to find a way to make them happy. You're the first person i've seen to bring up the issue of the report member link being so close to the member names, or the enter button search thing, but they're good points and we'll probably think about addressing them now.
The whole issue began with a misunderstanding of the rules and moderation of the site, which brought us to rethink the rules and try and create this new idea.

I dunno.. just bringing up some points here.

nobody called anyone a fascist or brought up the definition of pixel art in this thread (though thanks for all the strawmen you made me).

if you make a collab account, you make it with someone you trust, and if they screw up, you get screwed over.  it's like any other joint system.  In the same way, the account gets rewarded as an account.

if you post even partially uncredited work as always that's forbidden.  If one user posts credited work and receives recognition, well, good for them.  If the partner is desperate for his share of the asspat he could have made a joint account.

you see?  the systems are already in place and always have been.  Any time you try to add to the system you wind up making it more and more complicated.  Why make more work for yourself if it ends up adding to your responsibilities, but has little to do with improving the community?

I think if you want to make things run smoothly around here, make it so that when i hover over an artist name i'm not 2 pixels away from "report member," or that when I search for pixel art, i can hit "enter" when i'm done typing (because right now that cancels the box and i need to type again, if i hit it with the mouse the thing is so close to the border that half the time the mouse goes off the box and it cancels anyway).  There are a million little things that would actually help the site rather than fixing something that isn't broken.

Totally agree with ilkke's first paragraph; that'd be sweet.

Yeh, simplest way would be to just assign the same piece of art into all the authors' galleries.
The one who uploads it adds the names of the other(s) and then they kinda confirm it later or something. A piece cannot leave the public queue untill all the authors are confirmed.
Of course they are ALL responsible, and if you credit ppl who didn't collaborate with you (for some reason) then you as the uploader are responsible. Collabs should be prohibited from challenges tho (more ppl can finish a pic more quickly), but the rest of the trophies could just be shared (appearing in all the author's profiles) with maybe a tag 'collab' pixelled next to the trophy.
The other option is collab accounts, and that sucks cause you gotta make a new account for each time you are collaborating with someone new.

Couldn't there just be a set of Collab options on the sumbission page where you enter the names of other contirbuters and it appears in their gallery also but both link to the same piece?

we need that PJv3 soon sedge.

I would like to work something out that makes everyone happy, but I get the feeling that no matter what happens people are going to be disappointed.  Sigh.

EDIT:  I just wanted to add... I DO think that what we will be implementing in the future will be a huge improvement and will make MOST people happy. 

   You guy's, it's a little bigger than the "definition" of pixel art: It's who's piece is it, and if something happens, who is to be responsible? The collab accounts serve up many problems for moderation, when something goes wrong with the account, not to mention spamming and such. There are so many things that can happen, outside the realm of art, that we are worried about.
   We're NOT trying to hold anyone down, or pin down any one's right to post art at this site. We're just trying to manage things to make it much easier for you guys in the future to help keep track of who made what, even though some may throw the old "elitist fascist" crap at us.
   I also agree that the collab idea is a very fun one, as it always has been, and been practiced in many pixel art forums. But in a gallery sense, besides the art, it boils down to responsibility. Ownership of  "prize ", as well as the " problem" must come into play, first and foremost. Not going to stir a debate about anything else dealing with it, as it's still in discussion. Just know that we are currently working on it, and coming to a fast resolution. In the meantime, stop talking, and pixel...NOW!!

well how about pixeljoint groups? pixel art is pixel art, no matter who makes it.  If it's pixel perfect, 100% PA, then why does it matter if 2 people submit 1 piece? 

I'm understanding this as a "we're building a collaboration-friendly system. Don't submit any collabs for the moment, because it would vuck with the system."

I imagine some sort of "shared works" type of thing, in which a submitted piece of pixel art may show up in the galleries of multiple users so all collaborators get proper credit n' stuff. This would be rather cool, because then the obscenely large forum-run collabs could potentially be submitted to the galleries.

Pure speculation, though. kinda curious what will come of this :)

Would coloring someone elses lineart that they posted elsewhere for the intention of use count as a collaboration? I'm not counting not crediting them, cuz that's stealing.

Word.                            

I can't help but think that you guys are getting a little too uptight with the rules and definitions.  Collaborations not billed as collaborations are like any other uncredited work - forbidden.  but other than that, i just don't see the point policing.  people post credited dolls and that's always been fine, it's pretty much the same thing (only with more artistic input from the other).

If you want to get picky, any piece submitted for critique at any point in its creation is a collaboration, as well as any non-original characters, characters developed for a group project, etc.  Should we all just stop submitting 99% of our work, then?

I'm being facetious, but I still think this is unnecessary.  It seems like it would be much better to err on the side of expression, not censorship.

Maybe a tool that lets you add the other collaborators? and they'd get points and notifications for it. Just an idea but if that would be too hard...